Re: NANFA-- biological bombs detonating everywhere

Christopher Scharpf (
Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:53:10 -0400

> The reason their not available where I
>live is that LFS's cannot sell them, it's against the law. If they want to
>sell them they can apply for a bait dealers or fisheries license, but as
>you state below, there probably is not enough potential income to out
>weight the costs. They already have enough licensing to worry about. Again
>we get into the self-defeating argument.

What state do you live in, Ty? (I assume California, since you mentioned it in
previus posts.)In most states, bluegill are considered gamefish, which may
explain why it's against the law for the LFS to sell them. It has nothing to do
with environmental protection. It's got to do with the fact that bluegill are a
resource from which money can be made. And as long as money's being made, there
will be regulation.

>** I disagree. Most people that I speak to would love to have natives. But,
>they think it's illegal or they don't know how to go about getting them. I
>would like to hear from someone that lives in a state where their local LFS
>carries natives. How do they sell?

Ty, if you live in California, then indeed it is a problem. But the truth is,
most fish keepers -- and serious tropical fish hobbyists -- are not interested
in natives. That explains why NANFA's membership stays relatively small compared
to the ACA's and the AKA's....why major aquarum fish magazines like TFH and AFM
run very little on natives...and why pet shops don't regularly stock them
(assuming the laws allow it).

Occasionally, the Aquarium Center just outside of Baltimore sells captive-bred
Enneacanthus chaetodon. They're not cheap, though. ~$6 each the last time I saw
them. I have no idea how they sold.They didn't look that good though. I believe
the high temps in the store were affecting them.

>** I disagree again. I prefer natives for just this reason. I don't have to
>buy a heater and I don't have to continually monitor my water temperature.
>This makes native much easier to keep. As for the Merchants, they all sell
>Goldfish don't they? One of the larger LFS's in this area even has a cold
>room, where he keeps all of his coldwater species. Besides, many so called
>tropicals do not require water as warm as typically provided. I have an
>unheated 55 with Shiners, a Bluegill, a Jack Demsey, a Goldfish and a
>Plecostomus all living together quite happily. My house is typically heated
>or cooled to around the mid to upper 70's. At this temperature all of the
>fish are quite happy and healthy. Many "tropicals" will do fine at lower
>household temperatures.

Some natives have wider temperature tolerances than others. Most shiners and
darters, however, will not spawn in captivity unless they go through a "colding"
period. Most sculpins will die if temps exceed 70F. There are exceptions, of
course, but as a rule natives require cooler, unheated aquaria. I don;t know
where you live, but I'm in Baltmore. Right now my unheated aquaria -- in a shady
basement, no less -- are reaching 80F. So, depending on where you live, and the
unique environmental conditions of your fishroom, it's far easier to keep
tropical fish with a heater. Just turn it on during the winter, and turn it off
during the summer. The fish are just fine either way.

>** Yes it's a crime. I have not read the exact law. I believe that they can
>sell them but there are restrictive and expensive licensing procedures that
>would need to be taken care of. Making the prospect pretty much not
>financially fesible.

Again, because bluegill's classified as a gamefish. Does your LFS sell rosy
reds, which are actually fathead minnows (or a hybrid thereof)?

>** Agreed, but a Bass is not native in California. Just because the fish is
>from North America it's not native everywhere in North America.

That's why I put "native" in quotation marks, to distinguish native American
species from foreign species.

>>The problems run deeper than idiot pet owners, unforunately. Essentially,
>>it all comes down to values. What does one value more? Short-term economic
>>and comfort? Or long-term ecosystem integrity? As long as it's man calling the
>>shots, it will always be the former.
>** Another A-men

Ty, I'm glad me agree on the deeper philosophical underpinnings, if not the
practical legal ramificiations.


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