NANFA-- Re: [Clemmys] permits for wood turtles

Jeffrey Fullerton (
Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:04:06 -0400

Brian J wrote:

> The rules for keeping endangered or threatened
> species applies to all captive born and wild caught
> animals. I can't keep wood turtles in NY regardless of
> their origin.

It's tragic that most state agencies are too paranoid to trust private
breeders. If they did, there would be enough captive bred wood turtles on
the market to satisfy demand and less incentive for poaching.
What are we going to do about it?

Since they are not likely to listen the only other resourse may be to go
around them. That will require cooperative effort with other groups of
hobbyists. Reptile keepers alone usually do not have the critical mass to
impact in the issues- although there have been some significant gains. To
be more effective in defending and advancing our interests it will be
necessarry to join forces with other hobbies which are facing similar
challenges. A coalition of herp lovers, fish enthusiasts, bird keepers,
even horticultuarlists. Not surprisng all these groups have to put up with
some onerous regulatory burdens and worry about whether or not they will be
someday turned into outlaws by the stroke of a pen.
We should consider these people as allies and be willing to come to their
aide in time of need. After all their fate is ours and vice versa. Often
it's the same lobbying groups that are pushing for legislation aimed at us.
For example , animal rights activists targeted birds, and are now going
after fish and herps with onerous shipping regulations. Thier tactics are
deconstructive in nature - ie they break everyone down into small. select
groups and take them on one by one.
So it's time for a little "reconstruction". If hobbyists of all stripes
stand together - our common foes will find themselves biting off more than
they can chew and we will have the clout to be taken more seriously by
public officials and the agencies they serve.

Also with political elections coming up, all hobbyists should carefully
examine where the candidates and their parties stand. Though the liberty to
keep herps or fish or whatever will not be prominent issues there are
issues that do have the potential to impact - ie where do they stand on the
general idea of individual freedom and how much power government ought to
have to intervene in private life. Perhaps of most immediate importance are
elections at the state and local level.
That is after all where many of the regulations that affect us are made.
Don't support parties or lobby groups out of blind partisan loyalty. If
they don't support the kind of climate that is conducive to your freedom to
do the things you enjoy in a responsible manner- then vote for someone else
who will,


> --- Richard <> wrote:
> > I'm familiar with Michigan's and US endangered
> > species list. (URL listed
> > below)
> >
> >
> > But what i haven't heard or read is to whether or
> > not it applies to
> > captive breed turtles. I'm more than willing to
> > apply for a permit if
> > needed. I just thought that with all the experienced
> > people on this
> > board someone might have ran into this issue/concern
> > before.
> >
> > I plan to call the Michigan DNR to see exactly what
> > it applies to
> > (captive, captive breed hatchlings or captive breed
> > adults).
> >
> > Any feedback prior to my call would greatly be
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks Richard
> >
> >
> >
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