RE: NANFA-- Tank for Johnson County Library

Crail, Todd (tcrail_at_northshores.com)
Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:36:11 -0500

Let's start from the beginning and I'll move forward with your other questions
that it seems you've not gotten any private repsonse on either. Perhaps this
will address some other things that may be sitting in the background.

I've recently spent a considerable amount of time writting about projects that
I think would help NANFA, draw people to NANFA, and just serve in the good
name of conservation. General response was "yeah that would be great!",
however, as you may have noticed regarding how to distribute a presentation,
as an example... The core topic *immediately* gets sidetracked with operating
systems, distribution method, who will do the work, "I have this software that
I'll offer my services" "that software is inferior to this product", etc.
This is not a criticsm, this is just the way things are when you have a whole
bunch of people trying to work over emails. And so that got me thinking...

I had an off the record discussion with one of NANFA's active members about
how they feel concerning NANFA type projects, as I could clearly see, that by
just posting a quick little ditty without any thought given to it brought a
tsunami of emails back and forth. It was a good illustration of why people
who *happen* to be NANFA members just *do projects* and *then report* back to
NANFAns about the project. This member offered wise advice:

"Do what you were going to do anyway and then modify it where necessary to
make it fit better into NANFA."

That was concerning software. Does software have a tangible cost? You bet.
I bill out at $150 an hour when I do this stuff at work, however, that's my
donation when I set something up that NANFA can use, and I'm okay with making
that kind of donation because I believe in NANFA as a *distribution method*
for my causes, and that their mission is within line with my causes.

I'd like to point out that "fit better into NANFA" can have two meanings, and
I'll address the one that I think is appropriate. What I've determined was
implied in this, and I think a lot of other education-based active members
have determined, is that we're doing what we're doing because we have a
passion for educating others about our native fish and the ecosystems that
support them. So this may be more appropriately worded "do in a manner that
NANFA can and would want to distribute as materials that meet the *entity* of
NANFA's goals." NANFA is not in charge of what members would like to do. It
does have the right, however, to determine if it would like to spend it's
resources to take that project a step further or reward those members
financially or with some step of recognition.

So... Any project a member would want to do, sure it's great to have support
and financing, but I think it would be wise to only expect an "attaboy" in
return from *anyone*. Many NANFA members have taken it upon themselves to
place aquariums in public places. They absorb the costs, don't ask for
anything, but willingly place some mention of NANFA because *they feel* NANFA
as *an entity* can help distribute, enhance or reinforce their causes.

And before I cause assumptions to be made, let me say that there's absolutely
*nothing* wrong for asking others to help absorb costs for a project you'd
like to do to promote native fish. The worst that could be said is "no" or
nobody responding to emails.

To be blunt, the only way NANFA has commit to serving *anyone* or *any cause*
financially is thru the two grants that have been made possible by
memberships, auctions and the generous contributions that some NANFA members
and two families make yearly to the entity of NANFA.

You have some great project ideas, I would encourage you to apply for the
Corcoran Grant http://www.nanfa.org/conservation.htm Talk to Rob Denkhaus if
you haven't already, he'd mentioned the grant on Wendesday, and he's a great
guy to talk with and can probably help nuture your ideas, as this is his role
in serving NANFA. Also, look at what the recipients did in the last 3 years
for the grants. You will quickly see how their ambitions fit into NANFA's
scope and why NANFA rewarded them financially. And, you also may notice, that
these projects were all going to be done wether NANFA gave them anything or
not.

This is how the entity of NANFA formally offers it's financial commitment to
education. If you'd expect NANFA to formally offer it's financial commitment,
it would be necessary for you to make NANFA's formal application and
description of your project. And I think I've pointed out how people have met
the criteria in the past to complete that commitment.

I'm not sure why you're asking for the NANFA endorsement, as that endorsement
isn't going to mean diddly to any manufacturer. They're only going to cough
stuff up as endorsements/marketing for themselves. Of course, NANFA endorses
any project that promotes native fish... However...

What I think you need to determine for yourself is... Are you doing this out
of your own good will because you want to educate people about native fish,
and with what financing you can scrape together, because you were going to "do
it anyway"? Certainly, seeing what support you can gather by posting to the
email list is a great idea, but again, only expect an "attaboy" because that's
all many others who've done similar projects have received, and I'm quite sure
they were content with that. If you would choose to name NANFA and it's
website on your project or proposals, that's fantastic. But you can't expect
any cash or goods in return. That's not how NANFA operates it's financial
commitments.

I think you've already seen the willingness of fellow NANFAns to gladly offer
advice, time, and critters (and there could be a financial value placed on all
of that). I would take, however, the lack of response to your request for the
library project as a warning sign that the people that comprise the entity of
this email list (loosely labelled NANFA email list) aren't feeling they're
going to get much in return or are just a little tired of the fast arriving
requests. You may want to reform your approach.

Respectfully said,
Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: m c
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:38 AM
To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
Subject: Re: NANFA-- Tank for Johnson County Library

Did I put everyone off by calling them baitfish?

I mean that I expected a little more excitement or
discussion on the matter.

Anyway...

Should I say that it is a NANFA project, or that NANFA
is providing technical support?

--- m c <midgatutordigests_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oh, I checked, and receits for tax deductions are
> availible.
>
> So how do you put a value on a box of baitfish?
>
>
> I have the letter head and am basically ready to go.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- m c <midgatutordigests_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Well, good news, bad news.
> >
> > Bad news: They ended up having to expell some
> > students so they doon't need the parapro to watch
> > them
> > anymore. So, no job. Still a sub.
> >
> > Good news: Last month I asked the librarian if
> she
> > was open to the idea of having a native tank. She
> > asked the board, and they gave an enthusiatic yes.
> >
> > So, Now what?
> >
> > Is there a process by which to get an official
> > endorsement from NANFA, before I go soliciting
> tank
> > companies with Library letterhead?
> >
> > The old wooden cabinate (quite solid) that they
> > suggest that I put it on is just over 2 ft X 3 ft,
> > and
> > thus will easily hold a 29 or 47 gal. I have
> > somthing
> > like these in mind:
> >
> >
>
http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_combos.html
> >
> > http://www.commodityaxis.com/index2.htm
> >
> > The fish would have to be maintained with dry
> goods
> > for onsite storage reasons, but they would get
> > occational "treats" from me brought from home. I
> > live
> > 2 blocks away (small town blocks). I will be
> > responsible for upkeep, but the librarian has kept
> > fish in the past and can be depended upon for
> daily
> > checks and feeding.
> >
> > Do I seem to be going the right direction with
> this?
> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
> > list do not necessarily
> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
> American
> > Native Fishes
> > / Association"
> > / This is the discussion list of the North
> American
> > Native Fishes Association
> > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
> > get help, send the word
> > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not
> > subject) of an email to
> > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version,
> > send the command to
> > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web
> > page, http://www.nanfa.org
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
> list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American
> Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American
> Native Fishes Association
> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
> get help, send the word
> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not
> subject) of an email to
> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version,
> send the command to
> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web
> page, http://www.nanfa.org

=====
This is my mailing list address.
Please send any offlist responses to
midgatutor_at_yahoo.com
-
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org
-
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org