RE: NANFA-- (hellbenders plus!)

Scott.L.Schlueter_at_LRB01.usace.army.mil
Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:01:57 -0800

Just another note to the non-fish related discussion. There were some
comments made on questioning if credible evidence exists of a collector
impacting a NA species. Well here in NY, timber rattlesnakes are listed as
threatened. There was one individual collector that has made a severe and
measureable impact. Estimates have been made that he has collected 4000
snakes, he admitted that numbers were more to the tune of 9000 snakes. The
NYSDEC has estimated that this individual alone accounted for a 60%
reduction in timber rattlesnakes in NY. I am not sure what you would argue
is "credible" evidence? I am sure, no matter how conservative your
estimates, this individual's behavior has without a doubt lead to
measureable declines.

Just thought I would throw that out there as an example.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: archimedes_at_bayspringstel.net
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:42 PM
To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
Subject: Re: NANFA-- Columbia trip gear (hellbenders plus!)

Quoting Bruce Stallsmith <fundulus_at_hotmail.com>:

I understand erring on the side of caution - I really do. But nowadays
everbody
is raising all kinds of alarms with nothing to back it up, or else they
produce
junk "science" to justify their claims. I have not seen any credible
evidence
that NA naturalists are contibuting to the decline of any NA animal by
"collecting" them. I still believe that if this were a _legitimate_
concern,
then the majority of professional zoologists would consider it a point of
honor
never to harvest wild animals for their own various studies of imperiled
species.

This is simply another version of the points I debated in A/C with Gene
Helfman,
and I have yet to see an effective counterargument. I was kind of hoping
somebody would take a stab at it :-) If one can avoid protraying me as a
whining, rationalizing idiot, that is.

> The harm is imperfect knowledge that they may be common, the other side of

> the coin. We all know things change quickly in many areas, and this is a
> species with very specific habitat needs. Today's G4-G5 in many areas may
be

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/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org