Re: NANFA-- r (hellbenders plus!)

Todd Crail (
Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:30:22 -0500

And thinking about this a little bit more after meditating with the
fishies... Sorry to post to my post :)

I have found _nothing_ but _open doors_ to working with imperiled species if
agencies are limited on funding, people, etc (ie they actually _do_ need
your help) if the amateur is willing to eat their ego that they can "do it
better" and make their noble aspirations expressed through letters, email,
and especially showing up to local volunteer outings, etc. Offering to
_unselfishly_ help is the basis for building credentials and reputation, and
is the golden road to working with the most difficult species or those in
greatest decline.

In other words, I don't think it's any mistake or chance that I've gone from
a local Nature Conservancy volunteer... To having worked with a Federally
listed animal, approached to join the academic community, asked to provide
identification on species and provide survey work by an assortment of
agencies and academics, etc ad nauseum...

All in three years.

The _ethical_ hobbyist has _opportunity_

Perhaps even greater than those only thinking about what _they_ want to do.

It's funny how far you can get being unselfish, to actually realize selfish
goals. I used to be able to "do it better" too, and never got anywhere.

And with that... I'm done with this thread. It's case closed to me, and is
the point where I'll agree to disagree :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Crail" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: NANFA-- r (hellbenders plus!)

> You've illustrated my point Mike :)
> No, that population is _not_ the only population of blandings in Ohio, and
> this is why I have a _huge_ problem with amatuers deciding what is okay
> them to do with declining species. Perhaps you work with one of the
> State or Federal agencies even... Now that _really_ illustrates how little
> _individuals_ do know, and why erring on the side of caution is the
> best for the _organisms_, when considering removing any declining species
> from a wild population.
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ For a digest version, send the command to
/ instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,