There are a number of species of tortoise on the Gallapagos Islands that are
extinct due to collecting.
In Hawaii, there are several species of birds collected for their feathers -
extinct by collecting.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steffen Hellner" <steffen_at_hellner.biz>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: NANFA-- Collecting ethics
> >> <)> Still waiting for evidence that collecting of fish
> >> <)> or any other cold-blooded
> >> <)> animal has ever lead to extinction.
> > This is where I think that the views on this topic are nearsighted. It
> > not that it may lead to extiction, it is that it is not helping to
> > the species by still allowing for unrestricted collection or possession.
> Didn4t speak of unrestricted collecting or possession. But today the
> alternatives are either "do what you want" or "its prohibited". That is
> differentiation lacks.
> > You are reducing genetic diversity and therefore *possibly* weakening
> > species as a whole.
> This is an argument as weak as all the stated thread by collecting. If
> nature and especially amphibians and fish were that sensitive to losses of
> "genetic diversity" by loss of single or few specimen there would have
> no species development at all as we face it. Amphibians and fish are known
> to be very stable against inbreeding even when bred in genetic lines.
> every species can be inbred for many, many generations without affecting
> health or prolificy. Even mammals als the white Ory antilope were based on
> just a dozen specimen left and have raised to herds of hundreds without
> significant problems. Or see the Bison. It must have been extirpated if
> genetic diversity was that narrow as you state it. With amphibians like
> hellbenders it is obviously even less problematic.
> > There is much that humans don't know about population
> > dynamics and that is why I vote for erring on the side of caution and
> > allowing just anyone who thinks they know what they are doing to keep
> > species. Unfortunately, it is reactive and not proactive, but that is a
> > whole other thread ;).
> I agree, we are just at start of knowing what is really going on. My point
> is that the cautionous survive but the risky people take us further. We
> look at the species we have with tears in our eyes and see them die off
> be aware we "were on the side of caution" or try to get into it by taking
> the "risk" of using a limited number for research. And the latter is being
> done now with hellbenders. And I am aware that our past behaviour has
> this reaction as we missed to be proactive for too long. Still time to
> change this. Mere conservatism will not work in the long run.
> As you proposed I suggest we close this thread as everything for now has
> been said. It was great, I like controvers discussions. Hope I didn4t
> anybody by my statements which just reflected my personal oppinion.
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