Re: NANFA--now NANFA type aquarist- Collecting ethics

Steffen Hellner (
Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:02:37 +0100

> Those students however are shopping for a graduate professor that will
> do just that. Allow them to do the work. As undergrads they have
> discovered an interest in a certain field or endeavor. They will then go
> seek out a professor that has a program in place that meets the
> graduate's education goals. And they get paid for it in one sense or
> another. In laymans terms its OJT or on the job training. Its no
> different than any other occupation. Managers, either correctly or
> incorrectly, assign work and expect it to be performed according to
> prescribed protocols and standards. How else you gonna learn? To imply
> that something sinister or less sincere is going on here in the practice
> of science that isn't going on in any other industry is just ludicrous.
> This practice often allows students to be self directed and creative as
> well. A graduate degree in the sciences is very much different that a
> graduate degree in other disciples such as business.
I am aware of that and accept it in general. But many don4t have the severe
interest and do this OJT just for getting through. Even this is ok and
usually practiced everywhere. But these guys and ladies shall not come up
and tell us we are amateurs! They are though they have a title. I personally
don4t pay a cent of attention to titles. I highly respect graduation/doctors
principially but have as well encountered many idiots wearing their title as
a shield to their ignorance. In any profession, from business to university.

> In the spectrum of life there are the extremes and all the different
> shades in between. The spectrum exists for hobbyists, biologists,
> environmentalists, economists, laborists, and all the other "ists".
> Please, all, lets stop generalizing accept that there are extremely
> talented and ethical folks as well as bad folk as hunters, biologists,
> hobbyists, etc. Unethical practice is unethical practice regardless of
> who is doing the work. As far as what is ethical.... I would refer
> back to the NANFA guidelines, paraphrasing, essentially, abide by the
> law, take only what you need (not what you want) and leave as small a
> footprint as possible.
No alternative to that!

> This whole discussion illustrates to me the reason why improving the
> environment is so very difficult. Every bit of progress has to be
> fought for by tooth and scale. This group is obviously conservation
> minded but we can't even agree upon what is a threatened or Species of
> Concern and whether it is ok to collect it! Imagine what has to go on
> between big business, government agencies and the environmental groups
> where the interests are much more separated!
Within the NANFA it is about the objectives, within business and politics it
is about money, money, money. And a little power. That4s the difference. And
that makes it so highly important to professionals and the extraordinary (I
like that word!) hobbyists to find a common basis and go on as one.

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