NANFA-- Re: nanfa V1 #1991

Jeffrey Fullerton (
Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:14 -0500

> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:53:26 +0100
> From: Steffen Hellner <>
> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Re: nanfa V1 #1990
> The tax is only a part of the economic system. And this is ill around the world. Money, money, money, profit, more profit, maximum profit.

Steffan & Others

I hesitate to bash the rich because it's usually people like ourselves who own a little bit that end up being punished in the end when the proposed regulations to crack down on said abuses get signed into law. Besides for better or worst- it's money that makes the world go around. If I didn't have enough to meet my basic survival needs like food, clothing, shelter and energy and transportation there would be no fish and herp
collections, no ponds, no greenhouse, no internet no NANFA etc. I could elaborate more but it will just make other folks mad - so it might be more appropriate to take this thread to the OT list that Moonman started.

> Thanks for the comparison. I totally agree with you. If good breeders were given just a tiny part of the money spent for big hatchery projects and their burocracy, we would have multiple success in numbers and quality. Most of the hatcheries and breeding stations (if not all) work on the basis of commercial understanding i.e. "production".

It's interesting- and more on topic for this forum to discuss the comparison of large scale commercial and state run hatcheries and breeding programs with small scale private operations. I've visited friends and aquaintences in the herp hobby and NANFA and been awed by their setups and I realized there is a potential cottage industry here. Actually it is the case with herps. Breeders cater to niche markets- especially in dealing
with the less common or species requiring more attention. Easier stuff tends to become the domain of big scale operations- like Corn Snakes or Leopard Geckos (the former being the world's first officially domesticated reptile!) In Fishdom- many tropical species, goldfish and native NA species of interest to sports fisheries and bait trade. Stuff like Mexican Goodeids and Black Banded Sunfishes are more niche market.

> Everything is forced to be put in systems and standards which is wrong if it is about living animals. E.g. the african lampeyes: the live in very soft, acid water but in aquarium they do best in hard, alcaline water and reproduce like rabbits.
> Why? Nobody knows but it works.

My guess based on similar experiences with acid water fishes is that they also do better in less acidic, more mineral enriched habitats but are excluded from them by competition with other species in the wild. Blackbanded SF do well for me in ponds that are far less acidic than their native haunts. And the Eastern Starheads also- which came out of black water lakes and sloughs of the Florida panhandle. But I've had less success
going the opposite direction with fish from hard, alkaline water. They often become emaciated and more prone to disease.

> What if ever nature management would be transferred into profit centers? Don4t even think about it, you4d get mad.

Actually what I had in mind is more the management of private land by owners who are conservation minded- doing things to improve the beauty and ecological health of their property- supplemented by professional consultants, people who provide material support - building ponds and artificial wetlands- and other enhancements. Human creativity has no bounds. While natural resources (other than biological material) may be fixed- the
application of knowledge to utililize and manage them is not.

I risk going back on my vows to stick with the topic of fishdom if I delve any deeper so I'll take it over to the alternative list if anyone is interested I invite them to subscribe too and tell me if you agree or why you think this would not be a good thing.

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