Mycobacterium marinum is a form of TB which can be transferred from fish to
humans. It is not necessarily a "resistant strain" in the fact that
unscrupulous anitibiotic use has caused it to be resistant, it is just that
the bacterium is slow growing and extremely difficult to erradicate from any
living system. Humans obviously pose a much more important study than fish
and that is why we can cure it in humans, although any future skin TB tests
that one who was exposed gets will read positive. It is a very real concern
for all aquarists that we, (and I), have taken for granted. Many people may
have it in your aquarium systems and if you chronically loose fish to
deformity, wasting away, open lesions, etc, you may be doomed. The best
cure for a system infected with Myco is to euthanize everything (not the
aquarist of course!) and use a 10% bleach solution on all equipment. For a
lesson in importance of fish TB, just look at the Lake Victoria cichlids and
the conservation program. Most, if not all, of the fish are infected and
will most likely never be released back into the wild. Many of them are
extirpated in the wild.
My comments are only for the Mycobacterium comment and not indicating that
undisciplined use of medication is the cause of it. I do believe that
antibiotics are very effective, when used for appropriate "bugs". The use
of water administered antibiotics for systemic infections is not effective.
The best way to make an antibiotic effective is to get it in the fish,
either through medicated food or injection. I never used to believe that
they work but over the past several years of working closely with a vet, I
am convinced that they do work. After all, fish are no different than
humans. (I take that back, they are better) Both are poorly understood.
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485
From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net On Behalf
Of Irate Mormon
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: NANFA-- Antibiotics
Well, I guess it's kind of like naturopathic medicine vs. "standard"
methods. Each camp has its adherents. When I was a baby
aquarist I used Innes' methods for everything, and they worked quite well.
Now I use antibiotics WHERE INDICATED because they're
effective (I've never suffered any of those negative effects you mention),
easy to use, and readily available. Ironically, I prefer NOT to
buy OTC fish medicine because of the cost - I have a good relationship with
my vet and I can get prescription medicine more cheaply.
All I have to do is ask. Used to be you could pick up quinine or
merthiolate almost anywhere - nowadays it's a different proposition.
Or silver nitrate? I'll stick with my antibiotics. While it is not widely
harped upon these days, I'll repeat my claim that bacteria can
develop a tolerance for "alternative" medicines as well as modern ones. It
just stands to reason.
I am wondering if your experiences are primarily related to the marine
hobby. If so, then that would go a long way towards expalining
your position. Assorted maladies are _particularly_ indicative of
environmental problems in marines. But you can correct the cause
and STILL have to deal with the disease. How do you treat, for example,
bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia in a prized specimen? A
dip in malachite green?
I am also wondering about the origin of this "resistant strain" of fish TB
whereof Mr. Huntley spoke. I know a lot of stuff has been
circulated on the net about it, but really, is there any documented factual
basis for claims that this is a result of aquarium use of
antibiotics? Other than a bunch of folks talking, I mean.
On 12 Nov 2002 at 14:54, Crail, Todd wrote:
> Now let's not throw the baby out with the water change Martin ;)
> The practicle alternative is that I have *never* found it *necessary*
> to use broad spectrum or gram specific antibiotics in *any* of my
> aquaria pursuits, *any* of my customer's aquaria pursuits, *any* of
> the people I've advised online's aquaria pursuits. In fact, things
> more frequently became worse (read: animals actually were harmed in
> the creation of this event) when they didn't listen to my arguments
> and did whatever they wanted which usually, didn't involve a separate
> container to do a dip in because they'd ignored everything I said.
> And then who came back whimpering?
> I'm not questioning anyone's methods specifically. All I'm getting at
> is we ought to thoughtfully consider what we're doing with this stuff,
> and that I've found them to not be necessary in our aquariums.
> Plainly put, *I just don't think they need to be on the shelf*.
> Remember all that dialogue I presented yesterday about correcting the
> problems before worrying yourself about the symptoms? :)
> And I wasn't talking about just fish getting affected upon watershed
> contamination, but that point I think has been lost in the fact that
> this is, afterall, a fish list. But you might take heart in reading
> Mr. Huntley's human account :)
-- Life's a fish and then you fry.-- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org /----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org