Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: mcclurg luke e [SMTP:mcclurgl_at_washburn.edu]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:46 PM
To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
Subject: Re: NANFA-- Off topic: For the philosophers among you
I'm merely coming from the perspective that if we start talking about
peoples view, opinions, philosopies, etc. Then I will expect the courtesy
that ALL of the varying differing opinions will be allowed in the
discussion and not "yelled down" or attacked because some or even a
majority don't agree with them. I have no problems with such discussions
if they are equal and non-discriminatory.
Luke
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Frauley Elson wrote:
> I don't know Luke. I find this thread kind of interesting. I'm well aware
of the
> views you hold, in their broad outline only as we've never spoken, but I
haven't
> always seen the many other sides of the coin.
> I won't play naive and say my opinions now are unformed - I'm as set in
my ways as
> the next guy, and I agreed with the Lewis Thomas quote. But, for what
it's worth,
> it didn't hit me in the same way as the original quote from Jeffers. That
one left
> me with some good thinking on the road to work and back, which is a
pretty good
> thing to get from an e-mail list.
> I don't think anyone here needs to feel bashed. I've gotten both a new
houseplant
> idea and an intellectual challenge off this thread.
> -Gary
>
> mcclurg luke e wrote:
>
> > There are those of us who think the Earth IS ours. Ours to care for,
ours
> > to look after, ours to "keep and tend" like a garden. And I am one of
> > those people who think the Earth WAS made for man. So, I would
recommend
> > a discontinuance of this topic as it is getting "philosophical" and not
> > "scientific" since I have been bashed for such things in the past.
Hmmmmm?
> >
> > Luke
> >
> > On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Jay DeLong wrote:
> >
> > > > Jeffers' observation is contrary to most people's assessment of the
> > > > relationship of the human race to the rest of the planet.
Does/should
> > > > everything revolve around us as the crown of creation on the
> > > > planet, or are we more of an accident who now consume half of the
> > > > photosynthetic product on the planet? Since I'm not running for
> > > > election I'll support the latter.
> > > > Thanks, Sajjad!
> > > >
> > > > --Bruce Stallsmith
> > >
> > > Well, Bruce, you're going to get some people to nod their heads, and
at the
> > > same time piss lots of others off :-) Personally I look forward to
the day
> > > when ideas like these provide us with a common focus-- a sign of
> > > intellectual maturity-- or morality-- rather than some philosophical
> > > viewpoint. But it won't happen in our lifetimes and like I said
before,
> > > we're going to go backwards before we go forward. Species and their
> > > ecosystems will continue to disappear forever, and though we may
become smug
> > > and think ourselves prosperous if we judge prosperity by human
development
> > > and resource use and the Dow Jones Index, our quality of life and
that of
> > > our descendants will decline until we realize we need to take steps
now to
> > > conserve what we have. Here's another quote along the same lines of
> > > Jeffers':
> > >
> > > "The oldest, easiest-to-swallow idea was that the
> > > earth was man's personal property, a combination of
> > > garden, zoo, bank vault, and energy source, placed
> > > at our disposal to be consumed, ornamented, or pulled
> > > apart as we wished. The betterment of mankind was, as
> > > we understood it, the whole point of the thing. Mastery
> > > over nature, mystery and all, was a moral duty and
> > > social obligation.
> > >
> > > In the last few years we were wrenched from this way
> > > of looking at it, and arrived at a general understanding
> > > that we had it wrong. We still argue the details, but
> > > it is conceded almost everywhere that we are not the
> > > masters of nature that we thought ourselves; we are as
> > > dependent on the rest of the system as are the leaves or
> > > midges or fish. We are part of the system. One way to
> > > put it is that the earth is a loosely formed, spherical
> > > organism, with all its working parts linked in symbiosis."
> > >
> > > --Lewis Thomas (1974),
> > > from "The Lives of a Cell: Notes of a Biology Watcher"
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jay DeLong
> > > Olympia, WA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
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/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
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/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org