Re: NANFA-- Native Fish Canundrum

Todd Crail (farmertodd_at_buckeye-express.com)
Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:04:57 -0400

There's always gotta be one who wants to push the edges huh? ;)

First off, his example was a species that's locally exotic, period. It
seems like a strange species order for a stocking, but given that people are
generally aware of "rare" or "endangered" these days... I'm assuming that's
the motivation. A heartfelt one... But misguided in every sense. I think
John has given a very correct answer about that, kudos for telling it
straight up.

Now with you and your conundrum :) I run into this with native plants way
more often... What I'd do is have a little bit of a genetics lesson
explaining Genotype vs Phenotype, that humans are only just beginning to
understand the significance of what constitutes a genotype, and that staying
as local as possible is the "most" responsible thing to do. I say most in
quotes because I feel that's an opinion, and people can differ on those,
ahem, frequently. And opinions are never quantifiable.

Opinions are also subject to change, and I'm finding myself doing a lot of
painstaking re-work with my gardens because I only saw what I wanted to at
first (used MN and WI genotype for seed/plant source on some species I had
trouble finding local seed souce). This is just in my suburban, lawn-locked
prairie. A wild system is many magnitudes greater for potential effect with
errors. One in the water is even a couple magnitudes greater than that.

So... If someone wants to feel okay with their decision with _my opinion_
in mind, they're going to need to error on the side of caution and go
collecting on this adjacent river (I'm imagining that building ponds next to
a drainage that may seasonally flood. If they're making lakes out of the
river, well, my thoughts can be heard somewhere where I don't have to be so
civil ;) and stick to the Genotype that is there currently.

Of course, the local Genotype may include state sponsored stocking of
locally exotic species... But I'll keep my thoughts to myself on that one
too ;)

Todd
ps How'd you guys do yesterday?

----- Original Message -----
From: "njz" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: NANFA-- Native Fish Canundrum

> Good question. What does "that drainage system" exactly mean though? For
> example, here in Cleveland we have one drainage systems heading into Lake
> Erie, the Cuyahoga. Does the fish need to be fromt the Cuyahoga system? Or
> can it be from the Rocky River (about 10 miles west)? Black River (20
miles
> west)? How about the Maumee (about 100 miles west)? What about Canadian
> stock? To what degree do we want to go to say that it is ok? Is it just
> safe to say from the Great Lakes drainage or should we say the Lake Erie
> drainage? I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.
>
> Nick Zarlinga
>
>
> "If we ignore nature.....maybe it'll go away."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John B" <bongi_at_cox-internet.com>
> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 10:45 PM
> Subject: NANFA-- Native Fish Canundrum
>
>
> > I have recently been approached by folks wanting to build lakes and
> > ponds stocked with "Native Fish". They were seeking my help. I may
> > have turned them off by explaining that though there sympathies are very
> > much welcomed, when building a pond or lake that flows into an existing
> > drainage, that we would want to stock it with fish that are native to
> > that drainage system. "For instance", I explained, "stocking the Red
> > River Pup Fish in a pond that drains into the Neches River System, here
> > in Texas, would not be ecologically responsible or sound".
> >
> > Now the RRPF is not native to the Neches River. Does the all knowing,
> > and omnipresent NANFA list agree with these sediments? or I being too
> > hard core?
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> --
> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> > / Association"
> > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
> Association
> > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the
word
> > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email
to
> > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
> > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
> http://www.nanfa.org

--
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
Association
> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
http://www.nanfa.org
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org