Got another example?;-) E.g. the pilgrim dove, the cypress parrot. Species
which lived by the millions and have been eradicated without sense. The
Bison escaped at last chance. What about lynx, silver lion a.s.o, a.s.o.
Even the Blue Parrot from Brazil (Cynopsittaca spixi) was not brought close
to extinction by hobbyists, though the last pair was stolen out of a natural
reserve, but by habitat deminishing. There are many times more C. spixi in
captivity than in the wild (in Brazil estimated 11 males and one single
female - which came from a private breeder or zoo, I am not sure about
that).
I could go on mention examples for hours. And won4t find one against it.
Steffen
> Von: "Bruce Stallsmith" <fundulus_at_hotmail.com>
> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Datum: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:46:25 -0400
> An: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Betreff: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news
>
> Legal protection is only a start towards protecting a species in nature.
> Really, who much cares if a species is still in captivity but extinct in
> nature. In the U.S., protection at the federal level has protected many
> species from extinction in the wild. It's not easy, and more could be done,
> but you have to start somewhere. There are species that COULD be collected
> to extinction in the wild, especially many species of Cyprinodon in the
> western desert. Welaka? Maybe not. In truth, B.G. is one of the few people
> who knows how to catch them efficiently, and I know that he wouldn't go
> overboard(!).
>
> But welaka is like many species of dubious status, it's hard to collect
them
> easily and determine their population status. Hellbender salamanders are
the
> classic case of this, you only find them in very specific, hard-to-sample
> habitats. Many of these habitats are gone, and so are the hellbenders.
> Welaka are similar. I've seen a creek in Louisiana that was full of them.
> But they were hanging out over a deep hole with little easy access, and a
> boat would have been difficult to put in at that spot. There are ways that
> can be used to catch them (not electroshocking...), but it's not a casual
> process. So sampling many likely habitats would be tedious and your
> assessment after several weeks of the regional population status (numbers
> and locations) would still be a well-informed guess. Do you err on the side
> of safety, or blithely say there must be a buncha fish all around? Chip's
> comment about the South Carolina DNR is typical, they're not going to go
> racing out and protect something, if only because they have too many
> responsibilities for too few people.
>
> So we're back to considerations of how to save how much habitat. Saving
> ecosystems makes much more sense than saving species, in an immediate
sense.
> The Nature Conservancy's strategy is the best--buy the land and protect it
> yourself! But I think the federal government should do more, too, which I
> understand is not always a wildly popular idea.
>
> --Bruce Stallsmith
> Huntsville, AL, US of A
>
>> From: Steffen Hellner <steffen_at_hellner.biz>
>> Reply-To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
>> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news
>> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:22:46 +0200
>>
>> With all respect,
>>
>> does anybody REALLY believe that a species will be saved just by legal
>> protection? Without eliminating the threads from industry, agriculture and
>> land-taking for building plants, ressorts and whatever? No fish species
>> ever
>> has been extinct by aquarists. Not even by petfish trade (even severly
>> plundered sites have recovered - no excuse for that behavior but a sign
for
>> the strength of intact nature). What has brought all the endangered
species
>> in the US or Europe or Japan and elsewhere to be rare or endangered? Cole
>> mining, latifunds, industry, pollution and land consumption in any way.
>> It4s
>> the same everywhere in the world. Don4t try fighting cancer by cutting
>> fingernails! Legal protection without changing the environmental situation
>> is just a placebo. Compare to the Panda - if that species was ugly as an
>> opossum, would it be protected and cared as it is? NO! And who the f... in
>> public or politics really cares for some ittibitti fishes? That4s Mickey
>> Mouse.
>>
>> And when a legally protected species finally is extinct, the authorities
>> can
>> say "We tried what we could". Yabbadabbadoo!
>>
>>
>> My personal program is: keep the species you like, try to spread them
>> around
>> and never give them up - otherwise they will be gone from the hobby. There
>> are efforts to save Aphanus apodus, which obviously is extinct in nature
>> (Algeria), in aquarium. It is there for more than 10 years now and will
>> stay
>> much longer for sure. If the vasted money for Pandas (which are at the
edge
>> of their biological development by their own species mismanagement) or
>> Sibirian Tigers (my most favorite animal but it has no chance in the wild,
>> sad to say) would be taken to protect species which have a chance to
>> survive, we could save hundreds more. But those will neither look like
>> Teddybears nor be as majestic as the tiger. Millions of people watch
whales
>> in the sea or in "Oceanariums" but all keep eating thuna without
reflecting
>> to the uncountable millions of dolphins, whales and seals killed for that.
>> Even the "Flipper" image doesn4t help.
>>
>> What are we talking about here? Changing the world? Taking economy to
think
>> reasonably about nature? Sorry, but can you hear my laughs over the ditch?
>>
>> Steffen
>>
>>
>>
>>> Von: "B.G. Granier" <bgkajun_at_worldnet.att.net>
>>> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>>> Datum: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:44:21 -0500
>>> An: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
>>> Betreff: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news
>>>
>>> I hate to say this, but I think that someone is crying wolf.
>>>
>>> BG
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bruce Stallsmith" <fundulus_at_hotmail.com>
>>> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news
>>>
>>>
>>>> Such a statement to state DNRs could have a good effect just to draw it
>> to
>>>> their attention. If worse comes to worst then we can say "we told you
>> so"
>>>> for all the good that does... If welaka is listed as Special Concern in
>>> any
>>>> of these states, it would be a good focal point for asking for GENUINE
>>>> concern for the species and trying to stop their systematic elimination
>> in
>>>> the wild. All we have to do is do it(!).
>>>>
>>>> --Bruce Stallsmith
>>>> Huntsville, AL, US of A
>>>>
>>>>> From: Christopher Scharpf <ichthos_at_comcast.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>>>>> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news
>>>>> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:52:24 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>> BG,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree completely! But here's the deal: If unscrupulous collecting of
>>>>> welaka is taking place for hobbyists and/or the European aquarium
>> trade,
>>>>> then wildlife officials will eventually be moved into action, and
>> *all*
>>>>> native fishkeepers may get the blame. In this way, NANFA might be
>> found
>>>>> guilty by association. And who knows, access to other (non-imperiled)
>>>>> natives might be denied. But if NANFA issues a pre-emptive policy
>>> statement
>>>>> against the collection of welaka, then NANFA -- and hence all
>> native-fish
>>>>> enthusiasts -- will appear responsible and pro-active.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heck, it might be a good idea to issue such a statement *now*, as a
>>>>> precautionary measure. Send the statement to all state DNRs in the
>>> welaka's
>>>>> range, alerting them to the potential for unscrupulous collecting, and
>>>>> urging them to survey all populations and conclusively determine the
>>>>> conservation status of the species. NANFA could throw a few dollars in
>> to
>>>>> help support the work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps some of you LA-MS-FL members can form a welaka work group.
>> Heck,
>>> if
>>>>> a bunch of animal right nutcases can keep mute swans from being
>> killed,
>>> why
>>>>> can't NANFA help protect the most beautiful minnow in North America?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>> --
>>>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not
>> necessarily
>>>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>>>> / Association"
>>>> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
>>> Association
>>>> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the
>> word
>>>> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email
>> to
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>>>> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
>>>> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
>>> http://www.nanfa.org
>> -
>>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
>>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>>> / Association"
>>> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
>> Association
>>> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the
>> word
>>> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email
>> to
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>>> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
>>> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
>> http://www.nanfa.org
>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>> / Association"
>> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
>> Association
>> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
>> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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>> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
>> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
>> http://www.nanfa.org
-
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
Association
> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
http://www.nanfa.org
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
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/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org