RE: NANFA-L-- A little mud never hurt anybody...


Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- A little mud never hurt anybody...
From: Nick Zarlinga (njz-in-clevelandmetroparks.com)
Date: Thu Aug 26 2004 - 09:07:46 CDT


Thanks, now breath before you pass out ;)

I have always been partial to spotteds, but knew they were delicate. I
always wanted to work with them with the live sand thing but until recently,
I never had the chance to do it. I still need to convince myself (through
all of our experiences) that the fw live sand theory is similiar to the
reefer thing.

Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485

><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
><)>
><)> Of Crail, Todd
><)> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:41 AM
><)> To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
><)> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- A little mud never hurt anybody...
><)>
><)>
><)> Bruce... Thanks for the feedback. I was pretty
><)> sure this is a healthy
><)> animal. We'll see what he does over time. And
><)> yeah... I can see how there
><)> would be little information on their impacts.
><)> They're certainly not a
><)> catastrophic factor, which for our native mussels,
><)> would be really hard to
><)> tease out in the noise of all the, well,
><)> catastrophies. In the meantime,
><)> they're a nice and readily available species of
><)> filter feeder to begin work
><)> with, and flush out any potential bugs on the
><)> captive care side.
><)>
><)> Lance... I can't really add much as Matt and Jim
><)> have covered this pretty
><)> well. I guess the point I'd like to make is... If
><)> suddenly a virus
><)> targeting zebra mussels showed up on the scene...
><)> It could be pretty
><)> catostrophic. A fair portion of the nutrients
><)> they've "bandaged" and
><)> hidden, would be somewhat immediately liberated,
><)> and that could create a
><)> horrible dead zone, even bigger than what's there
><)> now. So think of them
><)> only as a band aid. They may appear to have
><)> solved the problem (which makes
><)> it hard to monitor what's going on upland). But
><)> the wound is still
><)> festering beneath... And we need to find some
><)> neosporin and triple
><)> antibiotic for our land use practices before "it"
><)> gets infected and the
><)> zebra mussel naturalizes.
><)>
><)> Nick... The spotted sucker has been in there since
><)> Tippecanoe. He came in
><)> -in-about 1.5", had scale damage (handle these guys
><)> with care oh my!), and
><)> fin degredation from the stress of the whole
><)> thing. His scales took about 3
><)> months to get back to the point where the spotting
><)> was even again on his
><)> whole body... The fin degredation took about 3
><)> weeks to remedy. He's
><)> closing in on adding 2" of body length since then,
><)> and as you can see, is in
><)> robust condition. His finage is starting to
><)> really rosey up. I'm a sucker
><)> for hog suckers, but I'd say he's a close second
><)> on the "favorite fish to
><)> watch" scale.
><)>
><)> He was pretty darn tiny to begin with, and I'd say
><)> that's the rule for
><)> captive care of suckers. Start SMALL. Forcing a
><)> mature fish to fit _your_
><)> habits is, in my opinion, unethical, if that
><)> matters to you. They're too
><)> set in their ways and your percentage chance of
><)> success is greatly
><)> compromised. I had a _horrible_ time acclimating
><)> a 5" shorthead redhorse,
><)> and that was in a very mature system that I have
><)> had to push the limits of
><)> feeding to keep him going. He's pulled through
><)> okay, but fin degredation
><)> took faaaaar longer to remedy and he even had a
><)> spell where he went downhill
><)> a bit. He and I will be much happier when he's in
><)> the Reefle (tm) and will
><)> only have to compete with darters and other
><)> suckers, instead of these greedy
><)> cyprinellas, lepomids and dace.
><)>
><)> The feeding regime... Again, I maintained him and
><)> the other species I've
><)> kept on just the Piscene Energetics Mysis (Hikari
><)> Krill additionally for the
><)> bigger boys), and maintained them on that for an
><)> extended period. HOWEVER!
><)> Recently, I've taken your comments to heart on
><)> feeding diversity (well duh
><)> Todd, Mr. Diversity Guy :) and have been tinkering
><)> with feeding strategies.
><)> I started feeding Hikari bloodworms, brine,
><)> glassworms on "off" days, but I
><)> have a large greenside that _would not_ eat
><)> anything besides the PE Mysis.
><)> So I started to just dump it all in-in-once and
><)> let them decide what they
><)> want to eat.
><)>
><)> The results have been phenomenial. Everyone goes
><)> for a piece of the mysis
><)> first, and some still only eat the mysis. But the
><)> other greensides, bandeds
><)> and suckers have responded very positively to
><)> getting to follow up with the
><)> other stuff after their "appetizer".
><)>
><)> ** The sandbed allows me dump in a ton of food at
><)> once, and let them graze
><)> on it over a couple hours **
><)>
><)> That is key. Don't miss it. I don't know how
><)> much of a mechanical aid it
><)> is to sucker health, but what it does do, is
><)> provides a biological basis to
><)> allow me to feed the snot out of them. In either
><)> case, you need to let
><)> these sandbeds mature before you do it. Just
><)> adding sand and then putting
><)> in suckers right away is not advisable. If
><)> starting fresh and sterile, I
><)> like to seed it with stream substrate and then
><)> give it 4 or 5 months for
><)> bacteria, diatom and algal populations to
><)> establish and stablize.
><)>
><)> I also have been throwing in Hikari frozen daphnia
><)> for the suckers to graze
><)> out of the sand. The hog suckers, as you can see,
><)> are very golden brown,
><)> with strong black bars... The finage color is tip
><)> top, like a fleshy pink
><)> color. They look like they do in a higher quality
><)> stream. Growth recently
><)> took off as well. One of them has doubled in
><)> length since I snagged them on
><)> the Grand River trip, end of May. And the green
><)> on the greensides and
><)> bandeds?
><)>
><)> Someone turn the lights off man! They're burning
><)> out my eyes! :)
><)>
><)> Todd
><)> The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
><)> It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
><)> http://www.farmertodd.com
><)>
><)> /--------------------------------------------------
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: Wed Sep 29 2004 - 12:24:23 CDT