Anyway, I don't believe I said all pure research is useless, merely that
some sort of discrimination should be used. It's very easy to get
excited about some project that interests you, but tunnel vision
prevents you from focusing on something more likely to be relevant to
something that's actually significant. We've all been there.
It's very easy to make arguments in the abstract, or to justify projects
to grant committees, but I will bet a MS-63 Panama-Pacific half dollar
that this fish sucking study will have no real-world significance in my
lifetime (after that it won't matter - my kid gets the coins!) It's
purely an intellectual exercise.
-Irate
"He says there's no doubt about it, it was the myth of fingerprints.
I've seen them all and man, they're all the same." - Paul Simon
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org [owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org] On
Behalf Of
>dlmcneely-in-lunet.edu
>Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:45 AM
>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>Subject: Re: RE: NANFA-L-- What Happens When Fish Suck?
>
>[Irate]:
>
><No argument there - I don't like my money being distributed to others
>in
><any manner I don't approve. Let those who want to fund fish sucking
><projects and political mailers do so with their own money - you'll
>never
><hear me complain once. For instance, I fully approve of how NANFA
><spends the money I voluntarily send them.
>
>I am one who wants fish sucking projects funded with my money, and I
>pay taxes. Get your own country, ala Fidel (maybe now Raul?) if you
>want to tell everyone exactly how their money will be spent to suit
>yourself. I put up with the mailers and other waste in order to get
>the worthwhile stuff like fish sucking projects, studies of phylogeny
>and ............... .
>
>Now, ask me how many bombs I want to buy, and how much I want Tom Delay
>to fly off to Scottland to go golfing?
>
>David L. McNeely, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
>Langston University; P.O. Box 1500
>Langston, OK 73050; email: dlmcneely-in-lunet.edu
>telephone: (405) 466-6025; fax: 405) 466-3307
>home page http://www.lunet.edu/mcneely/index.htm
>
>"Where are we going?" "I don't know, are we there yet?"
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Irate Mormon <archimedes-in-bayspringstel.net>
>Date: Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:36 pm
>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- What Happens When Fish Suck?
>> >First -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with "knowledge for
>> the sake
>>
>> >of knowledge." I imagine that we would not be having this
discussion
>>
>> >via the internet if many, many folks didn't do the basic research
>> that
>> >led to the practical development of electric power, computers,
>> silicon
>> >chips, and the internet. Granted, a lot of basic research does not
>>
>> >prove to generate "practical" appliances for the benefit of the
>> general
>> >public; but, until the "Psychic Friends Hotline" is perfected, we
>> can't
>> >predict which will and which will not.
>>
>> [Irate]
>>
>> Fair enough, but some avenues of inquiry are intrinsically more
likely
>> to have real-world applications than others.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Second -- I'm a fisheries researcher, in fact one that studies food
>>
>> >habits and food-web interactions, and I can tell you that we can
>> predict
>>
>> >what bass will eat, but only with very fuzzy, probabilistic
accuracy.
>>
>> >And when they're stocked into waters where they didn't evolve,
>> something
>>
>> >that's happening all over the world, even our fuzzy, probabilistic
>>
>> >answers aren't worth a hill of beans. Further, our knowledge of WHY
>>
>> >they eat what they do is really bad -- the big hurdle in predicting
>> what
>>
>> >they'll eat in a new environment. If you want to hear some good
>>
>> >argument, get academic ecologists going about optimal foraging
theory
>> --
>>
>> >but brush up on your calculus and dynamic programming first.
>>
>> [Irate]
>>
>> Why would one need to predict what bass eat? It can be determined
>> empirically. Optimal foraging theory? Strike out the first and last
>> words, and you may have something worth pursuing.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Third -- As for "And I helped pay for this . . .": For what this
>> study
>> >cost you might be able to purchase the toilet paper used by the
>> military
>>
>> >in Iraq for one day, or maybe not. You certainly couldn't afford
the
>>
>> >various political mailers sent by our senators and congressmen at
our
>>
>> >expense through their franking privileges. I'm not Mormon, but that
>> can
>>
>> >make me an Irate Atheist!
>>
>> [Irate]
>>
>> No argument there - I don't like my money being distributed to
>> others in
>> any manner I don't approve. Let those who want to fund fish sucking
>> projects and political mailers do so with their own money - you'll
>> neverhear me complain once. For instance, I fully approve of how
>> NANFAspends the money I voluntarily send them.
>>
>>
>>
>> [Irate] Not Mormon here either!
>> /------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----
>> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
>> / Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information
>> about NANFA,
>> / visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l
are
>> / consistent with the guidelines as per
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>> or get
>> / help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
>> / http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml
>/----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
>/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
>/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about
NANFA,
>/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
>/ consistent with the guidelines as per
>/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
get
>/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
>/ http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
/ http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml