Re: NANFA-L-- euthanasia

Bonnie McNeely (bnmcneely-in-sbcglobal.net)
Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:39:09 -0700 (PDT)

MS-222 is expensive to buy. I did not know that Petco was supplying it free. There might be some liability concerns, because it is not without danger if unless used carefully. That is true of other chemicals that stores supply, however.

If you want to kill them chemically, I would recommend clove oil or carbon dioxide. Formalin is not considered humane by veterinarians, and the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists recommends an anesthetic like clove oil, MS-222, or carbon dioxide before immersing fish in formalin for collections, if possible. Carbon dioxide does anesthetize, but it suffocates too, if too much is given, and the fish die with their mouths open. So, I'm not sure about humane, or even what that means with fish (see below).

Another point is definitely relevant, but PETA and other animal rights groups definitely don't like to hear it. Fish have no neocortex of the cerebral frontal lobes, thus the neural connections that people interpret pain in themselves through are missing. What people intrepret as pain in fish is the avoidance reaction. Not being a fish, I cannot say that they are not sentient, and do not feel something that if I felt I would call pain. But the neuro-anatomy for pain as I know it just isn't there.

I see no reason not to kill them with hot water. It would be instantaneous.

Dave

anutej-in-loxinfo.co.th wrote:
Sorry to ask again but are you serious about hot water? Now we are
talking about the quickest way to put fish out of misery but not
necessarily with/without agony.

So MS-222 is the best way to do this? Here out of US there is no
Petco or any chain store, but formalin is easily found..... Still if
MS-222 is the best way I think it is worth getting.

Tony

Peter Unmack wrote:
>
> I have a better idea perhaps for home euthanasia. One thing that I
> noticed was very quick and effective was dropping them into hot water.
> One time when collecting fish in Australia I was sampling in some really
> muddy water, so I got some clear water from the tap (the water comes from
> wells and tends to be pretty warm) and dropped the fish in it before
> sorting them for preservation. Within about 4 seconds they were dead!
> And the water was only 45oC, which isn't really that hot. So, make them
> like a lobster and drop them into really hot water and I'll bet they won't
> even twitch!
>
> One the sillier side, my old advisor was once asked by an animal ethics
> whether it mattered if a fish hit liquid nitrogen tail first or head
> first in terms of the pain they sufferred... That stuff is only -196oC!
>
> Cheers
> Peter
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
/ http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
/ http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml