The subdivision names are amusing. I enjoy names like "Hidden Prairie" (yep, its hidden alright) and The Savannah.
Perhaps the larger issue for sprawling counties, like mine, is to find a way to keep people in the city when population numbers are actually declining. I think our county issues about 2,000 new individual lot building permits a year. When the population has actually declined roughly 8,000 people in the last 10 years. The donut effect, just like Cleveland. Probably a combination of a lot of things, low mortgage rates, cheap ag land, etc...
matt ashton <ashtonmj2003-in-yahoo.com> wrote:
I think its slowly changing the corner-in-least from what I saw in NE Ohio with education getting out that these things are not only beneficial to aquatic resources but for your own pocket as well. We had an environmental planner working for us working with somewhat complex GIS software called CommunityViz where you could factor in all these different models and show to townships that maybe plain old developments werent there best options. A good example I can think of is a township that had a developer want to do housing in a typical quarter acre parcel with like 200 units and a guy wanting to gravel mine the same area then reclaim it and make it a park. Well after 10 years the tax base shifted and in the long run it was less of an infrastruture cost to the city and generated greater tax dollars to do the gravel mine. Such is the case with lower density or conservation development, lowering %impervious surfaces, staying away from floodplains, rip! arian, and steep slopes. It is
all economically more beneficial, just not "immediately" more feasible and immediate being the key, everyone wants the pay out that instant.
It is quite amusing how every new suburban development has a title and theme revolving around something natural and mostly water. The fact is the only thing remaining there aquatic is usually man made or highly altered. I've only recently seen some signs of developers realizing they can work around these features and use them as center pieces and actually get more money out of it too,use easements to their benefits, and develop something that is as close to a win win as you are ever going to get.
Jeff Grabarkiewicz <threehorn_wartyback-in-yahoo.com> wrote:
These are great points. Many of the developing townships in ol' NW Ohio are run like businesses. More tax revenue equals a better raise for the zoning inspector, township administrator, etc when review time rolls around...it also equates to a nicer office, nicer township vehicles, etc etc.
They are also scared crapless of being sued by developers.
Todd and I had one township trustee walking around his office talking about orangethroat darters a few months ago but when it came time to plant a 15-yr conservation easement on a township property, it didn't happen. They wanted that parcel for development. The development value of this 6.0 acre floodplain area was probably $250,000 due to its proximity to the creek. Maybe more. People love to live on creeks. The easement was 15-years, $7,000. Thats about as black and white as it gets.
The key to preserving these areas is to get riparian setbacks in the local zoning code and then somehow convince local jurisdictions not to allow variances. Some NE Ohio have had success with this, however variances are often given.
Jeff
geoffrey kimber <gkimber2-in-gmail.com> wrote:
One major problem is that trees don't pay taxes and wal-mart does.
When decision makers look-in-essentially free money, it's hard to say
no, no matter how much they might individually love the environment.
Additionally, the land owner has the right to sell the land to any s/he wants
On top of that, if the council does not approve the development, they
might be facing a legal challenge from wal-mart who has infinitely
deeper pockets than most cities do.
It never surprises me when land is developed. There are just too many
factors in favor of it and too few factors against it.
Even 'comprehensive land use plans' fall by the wayside quite often if
enough money is waved about.
Geoff Kimber
Fredericksburg, VA
>From the Rappahanock to the Potomac to the Chesapeake Bay. Nothing but net.
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<DIV>The subdivision names are amusing. I enjoy names like "Hidden Prairie" (yep, its hidden alright) and The Savannah. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps the larger issue for sprawling counties, like mine, is to find a way to keep people in the city when population numbers are actually declining. I think our county issues about 2,000 new individual lot building permits a year. When the population has actually declined roughly 8,000 people in the last 10 years. The donut effect, just like Cleveland. Probably a combination of a lot of things, low mortgage rates, cheap ag land, etc... <BR><BR><B><I>matt ashton <ashtonmj2003-in-yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>I think its slowly changing the corner-in-least from what I saw in NE Ohio with education getting out that these things are not only beneficial to aquatic resources but for your own pocket as well. We had an environmental planner working for us working with somewhat complex GIS software called CommunityViz where you could factor in all these different models and show to townships that maybe plain old developments werent there best options. A good example I can think of is a township that had a developer want to do housing in a typical quarter acre parcel with like 200 units and a guy wanting to gravel mine the same area then reclaim it and make it a park. Well after 10 years the tax base shifted and in the long run it was less of an infrastruture cost to the city and generated greater tax dollars to do the gravel mine. Such is the case with lower density or conservation development, lowering %impervious surfaces, staying away from floodplains, rip! arian,
and steep slopes. It is all economically more beneficial, just not "immediately" more feasible and immediate being the key, everyone wants the pay out that instant. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is quite amusing how every new suburban development has a title and theme revolving around something natural and mostly water. The fact is the only thing remaining there aquatic is usually man made or highly altered. I've only recently seen some signs of developers realizing they can work around these features and use them as center pieces and actually get more money out of it too,use easements to their benefits, and develop something that is as close to a win win as you are ever going to get.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Jeff Grabarkiewicz <threehorn_wartyback-in-yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>These are great points. Many of the developing townships in ol' NW Ohio are run like businesses. More tax revenue equals a better raise for the zoning inspector, township administrator, etc when review time rolls around...it also equates to a nicer office, nicer township vehicles, etc etc. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>They are also scared crapless of being sued by developers. <BR></DIV>
<DIV>Todd and I had one township trustee walking around his office talking about orangethroat darters a few months ago but when it came time to plant a 15-yr conservation easement on a township property, it didn't happen. They wanted that parcel for development. The development value of this 6.0 acre floodplain area was probably $250,000 due to its proximity to the creek. Maybe more. People love to live on creeks. The easement was 15-years, $7,000. Thats about as black and white as it gets.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The key to preserving these areas is to get riparian setbacks in the local zoning code and then somehow convince local jurisdictions not to allow variances. Some NE Ohio have had success with this, however variances are often given.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeff </DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>geoffrey kimber <gkimber2-in-gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">One major problem is that trees don't pay taxes and wal-mart does. <BR>When decision makers look-in-essentially free money, it's hard to say<BR>no, no matter how much they might individually love the environment.<BR><BR>Additionally, the land owner has the right to sell the land to any s/he wants<BR><BR>On top of that, if the council does not approve the development, they<BR>might be facing a legal challenge from wal-mart who has infinitely<BR>deeper pockets than most cities do.<BR><BR>It never surprises me when land is developed. There are just too many<BR>factors in favor of it and too few factors against it.<BR><BR>Even 'comprehensive land use plans' fall by the wayside quite often if<BR>enough money is waved about.<BR><BR>Geoff Kimber<BR>Fredericksburg, VA<BR>From the Rappahanock to the Potomac to the Chesapeake Bay. Nothing but
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/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
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