Re: NANFA-L-- Moribund fish & Life Outside

Bruce Stallsmith (fundulus at
Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:17:55 -0400

I came across greensides at several locations in north 'bama this past
summer whilst looking for flame chubs. The ones from Larkin Fork of the
Paint Rock River and Mountain Fork of the Flint have really pronounced V
bands on the side, and males have a vivid red dorsal band. They're big, too,
in the net at first glance they can look like trout or pickerel.

Someone is looking for sub-species designations? I still say that's a
squishy term. With a species as widely distributed as greensides you would
expect distinct population differentiation with characteristics like
coloration that have relatively simple genetics. But I'm still curious to
hear what this project comes up with, I'd even donate local greensides to

--Bruce Stallsmith
in the population along the Tennessee
Huntsville, AL, US of A

>From: "Todd D. Crail" <tcrail at UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
>Reply-To: nanfa-l at
>To: <nanfa-l at>
>Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Moribund fish & Life Outside
>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:27:03 -0400
>Thanks for taking a look at the mussels.
>Yeah, the TN and OH greensides are completely different. It seems like the
>TN fish have blotched "U" or "V" bands on the sides, where as the OH fish
>have parallel lines.
>One of the students in my department is working on greensides.
>with E. b. pholidotum and whether it deserves subspecies status or not...
>To which I replied "Well the fish in the Allegheny look like the fish in
>Duck and the fish in the Tennessee mainstem look like their own thing,
>the fish in the Holston and Clinch look like fish from the Scioto, which
>sorta resemble the fish in the Lake Erie tribs, but without that stunning
>red band in the dorsal, and I've seen pictures of fish from the Ozarks that
>look like fish in Michigan, but that might just be me." lol
>Really... I'm more into "that looks pretty" rather than how many lateral
>scales are on a fish, but someone should do the work I guess ;)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "matt ashton" <ashtonmj2003 at>
>To: <nanfa-l at>
>Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:14 PM
>Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Moribund fish & Life Outside
> > Todd,
> >
> > It is a really pustulose Mapleleaf , Q. quadrula. The lateral teeth are
>big indication of this as I have a Monkeyface Q. metenevra and Mapleleaf
>right now. The direction and length are what I'm lookiung at specically.
>Also posteior to the umbo see how the shell sort of extends and cureves
>and away from it, that really doesn't occur in metevra's it just is a
>straight down with the shape of the inflation. Also looks like you have
>some pustules on your beak sculpture. Don't have that monkey profile
>either. Finally another big one, the cardinal teeth are very different and
>this screams quadrula.
> >
> > Love the picture of the tippecanoe. I've run across quite a few
>snorkeling this year, although they are no longer considered tippecanoe's.
>Wow I can't get over how different I think coloration in Ohio greensides is
>than TN greensides too.
> >
> > I should send you a few of the big river metenevras they are pretty
>impressive. Slowly but surely I am working on getting more digital photos
>shells from the Duck and Clinch and Green Rivers and fish pictures from the
>TN drainage online.
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at