RE: NANFA-L-- brindled madtom potency

Mike Austin (emasquinongy at yahoo.com)
Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:00:33 -0700 (PDT)

Todd and Mike,

You have given me the anecdotal stuff I was looking for...in addition to Chris's mechanism info and leads. Wow, nausea, aching joints...true envenomation!! That'll make me a bit more careful when my youngins are with me sorting through the seine.

Interesting note about tadpole madtoms..."regardless of size"...Gerald P. thought that was a silly question on my part, but I am fascinated by "venom" and the "size and potency" topic has been documented in pit vipers. I would think that this kinda stuff would be well documented in madtoms as well. But, I have yet to follow up.

thanks again

Also, thanks for the mudpuppy captivity notes....especially the part of being able to be maintained at room temps. I found one source that was similar to the "sculpin" temp. topic...essentially mudpuppies do well at 68 or less...don't go above 72...77 can be fatal. Anyway, I wish I would have kept that little creature.




"Crail, Todd" <tcrail at UTNet.UToledo.Edu> wrote:
Mike,

While I can only provide my "first hand" anecdote of species found in Ohio (I
think Chris' post are your best leads), but have earned the dubious title of
"Multi-species Master Angler - Noturid Sting Division"... I can say with
little doubt that I respond the worst to tadpole madtoms, regardless of size.
Brindled and northern are itchy burny kinds of stings like you've described
(not had the pleasure of seeing a mountain madtom in the field). The two
tadpole envenominations that I've experienced left me nauseated for about an
hour and my joints in the stung arm ached for about 3 hours. One was the size
of my fingernail, so I'm not sure that size matters... It may be a similar
situation where some juvenile snakes are more deadly than adults because they
deliver all of their payload on the first strike.

The extra reactivity may be a direct result of one of the reasons I've been
stung so frequently - I have a horrible allergy to coral and jellyfish
(cnidaria) stings from farming coral (which may also explain my violent
reaction), and am more prone to puncture as the allergy has left the skin on
my hands quite thin and brittle. Package that with the other part about where
I feel the need to handle and examine the adipose fin of every "patched
colored" Noturid in Ohio to assure identification, and I get stung frequently.
I'm pretty much done bothering to handle gyrinus. I may be an idiot... but
I'm not stupid :)

I've also been hit by a speckled madtom down in the Coosa. That wasn't very
painful at all. Much like the sting from a YOY bullhead which may just be a
reaction to tissue infection more than venom.

Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
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