NANFA-- Re: Thanks everyone who reply and more questions

tony (
Thu, 11 May 2000 21:22:12 +0700

I had read in an old TFH article and it seemed to be that the yellowfin
shiner with yellow head and fins breeding male was from Broad river area. Dave,
thanks for the info. Now, I forgot whether or not I asked this question before,
but has anybody here keep and breed saffron and Tennessee shiners? Will they hold
their color in warmwater tank? I have seen some Tennessee shiners at the
Tennessee aquarium last May and they are among the reddest real life cyprinids I
have seen. Another question: how many color form are there of rough shiner and
what the normal and breeding color are actually like? Anything comparable to
taillight and yellowfin shiners? Are there any other red minnow in the Southeast
About B.G. comment...well, well...if a lot of people in NA have an interest
in tropicals then it is sooner or later people around the world [eg. me] will be
interested in NA natives since many NA shiners and darters are among the most
colorful freshwater fishes.

Dave Neely wrote:

> Tony,
> >Thanks for these and everyone's info. I have seen the breeding male >color
> >of the taillight only in Peterson's guide. In all other books I >read
> >there is no pic of bright red breeding male so I always wonder if >the fish
> >is really red. Next question: how many morph/races of >yellowfin and
> >greenhead shiner have been kept/bred by anyone here? I >have seen male of
> >the red fin morph color up to light pink/red all >over the body with loads
> >of tubercles on the head [especially the >forehead] and try to spawn with
> >the female. The color seems different >than red with yellow head and fins
> >seen on underwater pics in some >other fish books and magazines.
> "Morph"? Hmmph!
> Rob Wood and Rick Mayden (1992, Copeia, pp 68-81) looked at allozyme
> variation across the range of both N. chlorocephalus and N. lutipinnis, to
> test the purported "intergradation" between the two. Notropis chlorocephalus
> is a valid species, and what we currently recognize as N. lutipinnis is a
> paraphyletic complex of three diagnosable species. This is corroborated by
> nuptial coloration and pharyngeal dentition patterns- males from the
> Chattahoochee to Savannah drainages typically have red fins, Santee-Broad
> River fish have yellow fins, and Lynches Creek (Pee Dee) pops have white or
> yellowish fins. There was no evidence of intergression or intergradation
> whatsoever. Don't hold your breath for a species description... Rob's busy
> with Nothonotus and Rick is, well, busy on everything else except
> Hydrophlox. (Hey Bruce- here's your golden opportunity!! ;)
> Take the "New Testament" (Page and Burr 1994*) with a grain of salt- it's a
> good place to start, but there's a LOT of undescribed diversity out there.
> Anybody that tells you that the NA ichthyofauna is already taken care of is
> deluding themself.
> As for keeping them in aquaria, they do exceedingly well, eat flake food
> voraciously, and would probably be very easy to breed (mine are in a packed
> community tank- any eggs would get scarfed immediately). They maintain their
> color quite well...
> cheers,
> Dave
> * for those unfamiliar with the nomenclature, many NA ichthyologists refer
> to Lee et. al's (1980) Atlas of freshwater fishes as the "Old Testament."
> Only a small hint of irreverence is implied. ;)
> _____________________________________________

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