Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario

Robert Carillio (
Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:38:43 -0700


I can see your analogy and I agree with it. It just looked as though youwere
being personally condescending to me, when I meant no personal shot at

I never said "Ignorant" as personal shots at farmers, per se. It may come as
a surprise to you, but I do in fact know and appreciate the farmer's
issues, and realize who feeds us. For 6 years in my store, I handed out
information from the farmland preservation society, to prevent good land
from becoming another Wal-Mart. I have friends who farm too.

I have witnessed situations with them for 10 years with MRC, who had many
farmers on the trustee group. In addition, my Mom's side of the family was
of the farming cloth and we used to spend lots of time on the farm. My
grandfather always farmed organically.

If I have any problem with the faming community these days it's the ones who
WON'T listen to any reasonable approaches, and STILL choose to be stubborn.
I don't know about you, by I consider that ignorance, and would not hesitate
to let someone including myself...know if they are being simply a stubborn
ASS, no matter what the topic may be! When all else fails in eliciting some
critical thinking, maybe putting it plain and simple like that would! Ha! I
never called any farmer an ass, though.I also don't think it would suggest I
have an elitist attitude if I ever did.

I know that the farming AND development community has some pretty choice
juicy broad brush generalization names for
conservationists/environmentalists as well, so maybe they need to take a bit
of time to understand THIS side..... as well as the enviros and conservs
understanding them. It's a two way street. I don't like the "my crap doesn't
stink" approach either, but it exists on both ends of the scope. Mr. Yale or
Harvard, and by the book on one end, and the "Heehawww... I'm a Yankee
Doodle Dandy and NRA member" on the other. The real culprit of the problem
here is the unwillingness to learn or listen on both sides so that a
solution can be met. Many just want to shout over what the other is saying.
This is pervasive in the far right extreme. (ie: The Hannitys, Limbaughs and
the O'rileys) But, could this be the typical stubborn American attitude in
general? The one that suggests "we are always right and the rest of the
world is wrong?"..The attitude many seem to pretend does not exist, or are
in denial of? Could be, and that creates a communication problem not only at
home, but abroad as well.

Many seem to think history "begins and ends" with us. I would be too naive
to act as though this attitude does not exist here. I call it a "redneck" or
"yahoo" mentality, and this has not a thing to do with money or socio
economic status... it's a mentality that comes in both the monetarily
wealthy and the challenged. Good example of the rich side of this cloth....I
consider the president to be of this self righteous cloth.

Funny we should talk about subjects of people not like being told what to
do.. right?...

Indeed, I think as Americans we should take that a bit farther and think
outside the box and realize that if we don't like it here, then why the heck
would the rest of the world like it? What I am getting at is perhaps that
attitude on both ends of the scope is where communication problems begin.

Getting back to the farmers issue and off my tangent. Yes, no one likes
being told they are ignorant or what to do for that matter. It's really a
shame that circa post WW2 then, that so much of the farming community was
sold a load of crap from the chemical companies who sold them the
pesticides, etc. "better living through chemicals" was the catch
phrase...introducing a host of chemicals into the environment that nature
would have never produced on it's own, not knowing what affect it would have
on long term human health or the environment.

I have often pondered.. could this not be construed or interpreted as
"telling them what to do" Indeed it could be, but it's packaged as honest
business/sales/free enterprise and a host of other accepted in our culture
names, and then it becomes voluntary to become a part of what maybe is not
needed..That's the real 'evil' if there is any at all..... voluntary slow
death unleashed upon the environment.

I remember my grandfather being approached with these farm chemical
salesmen..I remember him telling us how they were trying to tell the farming
community "how much they NEED" what it was that they were selling, by suit
and tie folk who have never stepped foot on a farm before. Essentially, with
the clout chemical companies have in congress, they ARE telling congress
what to do. My Grandfather and many others, luckily, had enough foresight
and understanding of natural systems of checks and balances to know that
those chemicals could screw up that balanced web, create a need to
artificially try and do what nature used to do for free..... He understood
the farm as a living and breathing interdependent system, rather than
looking at it as an extraction factory and lay the soil to waste as a
result.....He refused to use the chemicals, and even kept riparian zone.
They always did well in their farming business too.

The simple fundamental messages being conveyed to the farming community
today are basic and nothing really new. It's those who don't listen and are
unwilling to learn when they know better, that get labeled ignorant, and
deservedly so. That goes for environmentalists too! :-)

Out For Now...
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