Re: NANFA-L-- Endangered Species Act

dlmcneely at
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:41:29 -0500

Moon wrote:

"BTW the spotted owl that every one was fighting about in
recent years as an excuse to not cut old growth forests (which I agree
with to a
great extent) has been found to thrive in second and third growth
Which means that ESA not only didn't do their research and were
completely wrong
about the spotted owl, they made ESA look like a joke."

Sorry, Moon, but you have fallen for the industry position that simply
doesn't wash in view of the data. Young, dispersing, spotted owls are
found in second and third growth, even heavily cut, forests, and if the
numbers alone are counted, it looks like there are more owls in those
habitats than in the old growth stuff in certain places. But adult
owls simply do not set up territories and nest in young forests. The
stuff they need, particularly the arboreal rodents that themselves nest
in the trees, including flying squirrels and a vole species, simply
aren't in the young forests.

It helps when one has all the data before reaching conclusions, which
is not something industry is good at. In fact, where endangered
species are concerned, industry is good at staking out a position,
paying someone to write it up as "sound science," and then screaming
that this "sound science" needs to be taken into consideration when
decisions are made. Data can go to hell, so far as they are concerned,
unless they are carefully put together data to fit a preconcieved

They are really good at placing these positions before the public and
using public relations ploys to make the public believe them. Or at
taking something silly like a petition to ban water disguised with a
pseudotechnical name to make a joke of what should be really serious
business, environmental protection.


David L. McNeely, Ph.D., Professor of Biology
Langston University; P.O. Box 1500
Langston, OK 73050; email: dlmcneely at
telephone: (405) 466-6025; fax: 405) 466-3307
home page

"Where are we going?" "I don't know, are we there yet?"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
/ help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at