First of all... I consider myself an environmentalist. I don't know why you
assumed any negativity. Secondly, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being
curtly blunt, else this turns into another philosophical musings session.
And this deserves a better treatment than that.
What I want you to understand is that "those who don't listen"...
*** Why is solely their fault they haven't listened? ***
Communication is a two way street, man.
I'll give you a scenario, and see if makes some sense...
Group X decides they have "The Solution". So they go about telling people
in Group Why that they have "The solution". However, they only have
supported "The Solution" with situations that Group Why can't just go down
the road and see, and Group Why isn't real keen on going about and finding
things out for sake of knowing. They were pretty danged busy with their
current activity.
Furthermore, Group Why has been given a pile of evidence that Group X finds
itself part of an intelligence elite, which carries a certain weight of
arrogance that blinds them to the fact that they know absolutely NOTHING
about the activity that they'd like to see changed by Group Why.
Now throw in the fact that Group Why is in charge of 1) feeding their family
and 2) feeding the rest of us, and I find myself a little bit glad they're
resistant to changing what they're doing!
If group X is so stinkin' smart, and "The Solution" so intuitive, then why
haven't they found a way to communicate it? "The Answer" is not that Group
Why is in a continual less evolved state of ignorance. Stubborn, heck yeah.
But Group X needs to find its way into the lives of Group Why, not just show
up in their shiney truck and tell them what to do, then leave. And really,
"ignorant" has only become a PC way to say "You're a freakin' dumb a...."
because one group hasn't found a way to communicate effectively.
The question I never want to hear is "And have you ever farmed, boy?" It's
also the question I'm dying to hear. It's a crux in communication, and
where I can vocally pay respect to the fact that I'd look like a drunk
sailor out on a tractor, hacking up all of my crop, and really taking it on
the nose until I figured out how to do all that stuff. It's a point where I
can assure the person that I'm not trying to tell them how to do their
job... That I'm trying to give suggestions, and use their expertise to gauge
how they feel those suggestions might work in their situation. You might be
suprised how far you get with that approach. But it starts with respect
from the git go, else you never get to "the question".
Impervious surfaces developers? Have at 'em! They're the real demons of
today. They're educated in Group X's schools, and they just want the money.
But please consider giving the farmers a break, take a step back, and well,
go talk to one. I've yet to meet a farmer who didn't like to talk :)
Todd
The Go Hug A Farmer Today Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Carillio" <darterman-in-cboss.com>
To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
> Well, for those who don't listen, who have had plenty of time to get their
> act together, it would it only stand to reason why some may call them
> ignorant. I cannot think of putting that any more politely. We're "told
what
> to do" all the time. It's democracy, not anarchy, and with that there are
> rules/laws that some may deem as 'telling us what to do" Why blame failure
> of this kind of plan on "environmentalists" Moreover, why label people as
> "environmentalists" as it's some kind of bad thing. Without them, you
would
> not have had most of the health and safety standards we have today, and
all
> the beautiful places we have set aside for future generations to enjoy.
> Change has never come from the top down. Those who work in soil and water
> here have proposed exactly what you are saying. Were they wrong for
sharing
> their knowledge with farmers in that they 'told' them of a better way to
do
> things which would have a long term better impact on their land not
eroding
> into the stream? Sometimes no matter what approach is taken to get
> cooperation in land conservation, some just don't take to it at all.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crail, Todd" <tcrail-in-UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
>
>
> > That's because environmentalists need to learn to QUIT TELLING PEOPLE
WHAT
> > TO
> > DO and that they're IGNORANT IF THEY DON'T LISTEN.
> >
> > I can't put that any more politely.
> >
> > Todd
> > The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
> > It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
> > http://www.farmertodd.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org on behalf of Robert Carillio
> > Sent: Tue 8/8/2006 12:57 AM
> > To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> > Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd.. this is a good idea. Our soil and water proposed this and showed
> > how
> > the farms could benefit, but instead of listening to reason, they 'got
out
> > the shotguns' and were worried about their property rights. I guess some
> > people like to remain ignorant.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Todd D. Crail" <tcrail-in-UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
> > To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
> >
> >
> >> Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.
> >>
> >> Spend the money on getting riparian setbacks issued so developers can't
> >> encroach. Spend the money to get people with large tracts of
undistrubed
> >> land rewarded with tax abatements to encourage them to sign on to keep
> >> the
> >> land out of production in perpetuity. Spend the money getting ag land
> >> within
> >> 300 meters of the 30 year flood plain put into retirement.
> >>
> >> Riparian easements typically _start_ at 100 meters. Grass buffer
strips
> >> at
> >> 30 meters at intersection with the 1st order stream, and 10 meters
> >> through
> >> the course of the field. Part of the agreement is to not take it out
of
> >> Ag
> >> production ever, if at all, to keep the encroachment of impervious
> >> surfaces
> >> away and build cooridoors that benefit terrestrial fauna as well.
> >>
> >> Etc etc etc... As opposed to putting species in glass boxes and calling
> >> it
> >> "conservation".
> >>
> >> Todd
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Robert Carillio" <darterman-in-cboss.com>
> >> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 2:25 PM
> >> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
> >>
> >>
> >>> Part of Todd's comment...
> >>>
> >>> "Habitat degredation is the problem everywhere, for most all species
in
> >>> decline... Why not spend the bucks on the habitats that HAVEN'T been
> >>> degraded, to protect them?"
> >>>
> >>> This is true Todd, but at the same time, can we expect the undegraded
> >> areas
> >>> to stay their perfect little piece of paradise, if they become
> >>> surrounded
> >> by
> >>> degraded area? The way Ohio is being sprawled upon because of outdated
> >> home
> >>> rule laws that perhaps never really took into account development to
the
> >>> current magnitude, what high quality areas we have risk being
threatened
> >> by
> >>> what is surrounding them. These green protected areas are becoming
small
> >>> islands amidst being surrounded by concrete. Conservation really needs
> >>> to
> >>> address both..high quality areas, and the buffers that surround them.
> >>>
> >>> Rob C.
> >>> Mahining River Drainage
> >>> Ohio, N. A.
> >>>
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> >>
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