Re: NANFA-L-- Speckled Dace - Where Oh Where

Todd D. Crail (tcrail-in-UTNet.UToledo.Edu)
Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:38:29 -0500

I can totally empathize Jerry. We just went through a season with a state
permit on mussels, produced a pile of educational outreach and materials,
identified-in-least one undocumented VIABLE population of Fed Candidate II
species (probably 2), found many species co-existing with Dreissenid mussels
(zebras etc) including populations in almost all surveyed Lake Erie marshes
and the connecting lower portions of lake tributaries of a State Threatened
species, not to mention all the other site data. We paid for our own gas,
were not paid for our time. We did it gladly. We'd do it again.

What have we got while wrapping up 2005?

No one in charge wants to hear about the new populations (although they'd
like a free book), there was a pile of paperwork they wanted Jeff to do in
addition to his spreadsheet report (even more time), our permit for 2006
will be further restricted where we have to call _and talk to_ a Division of
Wildlife Officer before we go out, else our $25 permit is negated. And
that's even before we make an application for permits in Michigan. You can
forget about Indiana after what I've seen others go through who WORK for

It'd be REALLY easy to get a bad attitude about this :)

I believe a while back you said it was legal to look-in-the fish in situ,
you just couldn't remove them (non-fed listed species, of course)? Take a
look in the literature how people have done studies of other species, or
dimensioning the fish community structure in your area. Read their methods
section and replicate them. Take environmental data. Specialize on
identifying macro-inverts, and begin to collect data on the community
composition of inverts etc in streams known to have historically hosted
certain species you're interested in and make analysis of what's different
between the two, etc. Basic categorizations, perhaps look-in-algal
community structure. Just some ideas.

These are questions that probably need answered more than a look-in-life
histories of the specific species. No food, wrong environment, interuptions
in lower trophic levels... no spawning, no adults. Simple as that. No one
can say hum about what you're doing, and you're still making a contribution
to the success of the species.

And then..... Post your experiences and information on the web. You don't
even have to put it into the Lit, because that can be one more frustrating
beauracracy if you're not used to it. By putting it on the web, I'm sure
you'll also find others interested who were just poking around, and probably
the only place you're going to get any kind of pat on the back. That's how
Jeff and I met. Look where we're-in-now in less than 2 years... We've got
about 100 people locally, fired up to do something, anything. And we
haven't even launched the "A Lucas County Almanac" the ladyfriend and I are
going to put together this summer on the Farmertodd website.

It's only through selfless acts such as this that these beauracratic savants
are going to see the value of having the public involved.

Might also remind them who pays their salaries.

The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
Be the change you want to see.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Baker" <>

> I have tried several times to contact the responsible fisheries
> biologist for California Fish & Game to see if there are any data that
> would be helpful to collect. I live very close to one of the best
> locations for all four species of these threatened fish and I have water
> measuring equipment-in-my disposal. Of course, they won't return
> telephone calls-in-all. I hate just being marginalized when there is so
> much work that needs to be done.
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